As a European, I would like to know in _which_ European country you're based. I think I know all of them, people from abroad might not. Saying "Made in Europe" is too general for my European liking. ;)
I'd also like to know what "based in the EEA" means:
> For interoperability to work, both you and your WhatsApp contacts need to be based in the EEA.
Does my contact phone number need to have an EEA country code? Does my current IP address need to be geolocated in the EEA? Do I need to download the two apps from a regional App Store in the EEA? Do I need to show an EEA payment method to both apps? What happens to my chats if I move or switch app stores?
Surely it's very similar, companies can't - AFAIK - be registered in USA, they're registered in a state. USA's States have different tax and legislative climates, just like EU states do.
It Is fair to say that "Europe" is a proxy for "European Union", like "America" is usually understood as "United States of America", without any precise geographic connotation.
Their service operates in the European Economic Area, which includes more countries than the EU and is therefore closer to the European geographic surface.
> while Europe is many different countries that are completely different.
I've always found this a weird take. European (EU) countries are more similar to each other than any country outside of Europe is to any European country.
In your example, if you drive two hours to Germany or Czechia, your car will still be insured, all your bank cards will still work, the price of your mobile phone service stays the same, you'll have a good idea how health and employment systems work, and the chances are you'll be able to talk to people in English.
It remains true that the barriers the businesses face are higher, but that's not what your example was about.
> I've always found this a weird take. European (EU) countries are more similar to each other than any country outside of Europe is to any European country.
You think finland and malta are more similar to each other than sweden and norway?
The words aren't important. The regulated meaning is. Does it have a legal meaning? If so, what is it? Who enforces it? Consider made in Italy vs made in Germany are different in meaningful aspects.
The way I see it, "made in Europe" may be dubious, but "made in EU" should be just as okay to write as "made in USA". And if it's not a thing, well, nothing is a thing until people make it a thing.
EDIT: also we're talking about a software product here, where most things written on the product is legally meaningless - otherwise we'd have special customs regimes for those major software exporter places like "love" and "♡".
I know that there is a regulated meaning—at least for food—even down to the region (Scotch, Chianti, Champagne, etc.) or even city (Modena, for balsamic vinegar), but laws aren't the same in every country.
"Made in EU" would be equivalent to "Made in USA", and I'm pretty sure it's regulated.
This is just an app though, so they can say whatever they want. I've seen "Made with love", "Made on Earth", etc.
As my comment implied, there is in some places, but the regulations aren't uniform. Also, the person I responded to mentioned supermarket products. I was asking legitimate questions & was hoping to get an informed response.
"For Europe, this is our chance to build competitive alternatives to Big Tech. But we need European-hosted infrastructure to make that possibility a reality."
The open web is your European alternative, not the Silicon Valley-approach but then in Europe. That just invites the same abuse of data, the same enshittification and the same rent-seeking behavior.
The vibe-coding part is most in discussion here, so it's easy to overlook the financial part.
I build small web applications for my personal needs all the time by just regular programming, and I'm saving so much money by using them and not some proprietary app. Not even mentioning the advantages that it is completely bespoke, runs local and gives me peace of mind data-wise.
Some wise man once said that personal computers are a bicycle for the mind. Programming your own programs is the most pure way you train on that bicycle.
I think it depends on the project size and how much your time is worth. Vibe coding might be able to save some time, depending on how well it can solve the problem without needing correction.
These trade unions are notorious for that. I worked as a labor legal advisor and especially the unions for temporary employment agency start 'barking' and demand loads of money (even from years back). Sometimes it's not even clear which union is applicable.
You probably have all the info right now, but make sure everything is 'in line'. I mean, have your company codes at the tax authority match the applicable union match the actual things that your company does. Depending on the jobs of the employees, it might be smart to split the company into multiple legal entities.
All in all you can be happy that this happened within a couple of months. Finding this out when you're years underway and then having to pay millions... I've seen plenty of these cases.
Want to start a business in The Netherlands? Make sure to do a 'CAO check' first, think about how to structure your company (one entity? multiple entities? what job goes where?), and do these checks again once you pivot or make certain changes to the actual work that your company does.
The rationale for this is also pretty simple: somebody got to pay for all this nice social security. They say it's part of the risk of being an entrepreneur.
Yeah our case was strange because we develop chips and design software related to it. Belastingdienst categorized us wrongly as metalelektro, and we got this guys (Cometec) within two weeks of that. In the meantime we have applied this sector assignment to be corrected, which eventually happened while we were getting threatened into bankruptcy by these guys.
What I don't understand is, we got a lot of help from RVO, Belastingdienst etc before and during incorporation. Nobody talked about this! We got sone numbers from Belastingdienst about social security contributions per sector, but like 15% cut per employee wasn't mentioned once. To this date I don't know what legal basis do they have to ask for this amount of contribution. Nobody mentioned any law, or a decision by ministery of social affairs. Very strange to deal with this, because it's literally someone showing up and asking for money without telling even based on what.. It gave very strong gang vibes, which was surprising for me as I was always a member of a trade union.
Yeah, that stuff can be scary, I understand. It might almost feel extortionate. You had labor lawyers look at the applicable CAO and pension rules?
I quickly checked their website and it's a little unclear (so don't consider this legal advise), but their legal basis is probably the CAO. If that particular CAO has been made mandatory by law (which happens for certain industries that need tighter control from government, like temporary employment agencies), than it automatically applies to companies doing the exact work that's described in the CAO ('werkingssfeer').
It's a shame that RVO and Belastingdienst did not warn you correctly. The Netherlands does not want entrepreneurs, they want everybody cozy at their jobs at some big company.
Do you happen to be in or around Nijmegen with your chip development?
> The Netherlands does not want entrepreneurs, they want everybody cozy at their jobs at some big company.
Totally agreed. Those big companies in return get a lot of benefits from the government. Most investment in semiconductors for example are going into the already big, and let's be honest, not do competitive companies to keep the alive.
We're in the Randstad. Nijmegen is nice but together with old Philips its semiconductor ecosystem has declined quite a bit.
Thermal underwear. Entering the 10th year of a 30 euro Helly Hansen long underpants that keeps me warm half the year.
Raspberry Pi 4 that served as my daily driver for around three years.
A couple of dumbbells that got me started with weight training, and kept me going during covid. Together with the basic equipment that I later bought, it saved me hundreds and hundreds of euros in gym memberships.
Best purchase under 10 euros is a simple cube with blank memo notes, that I use for grocery shopping and all kinds of other to do lists.
Did you ever come to finish your bicycle trailer/caravan/fawowa? If you have an RSS feed, I can follow the progress. You can see mine on https://www.theredpanther.org (from The Netherlands, next to Germany ;) but with a Youtube channel in English)
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